Curse

Ecksor · Jan 07, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

which is why me(r2) and my friend (r6) are going to start an r6+ group right now lol

tomcruisejr · Jan 07, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien

Does this not imply that Anet wanted people to play PvE, and then once they've beaten the game, move into PvP?

I dont know. but i share the same view a.net used to have. it was doin well until the hardcore pvpers started to whine that killing charrs before they can do pvp is grind and complained not having the appropriate skills to counter the builds of the then dominant Koreans (who obviously went through PvE content).

I still wonder what things will be if the PvP only creation character interface wasn't implemented. Maybe the then whiners who learned to accept that goal of A.Net have now their fully prepared PvE characters with UaS coz of easier skill acquisition through PvE. Maybe PvE won't be taken for granted. Maybe more PvErs are now good PvPers and the PvErs of today have a clear path to follow.

byggryn10 · Jan 07, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

this is exactly the type of thing i was hoping for. For anet to give us an idea of the changes they want to make to the game before they actually make them permanent and to be able to give feedback on what we think about the proposed changes.

Now they go and do one thing better... making us all beta testers in a in-game test of potential changes!

If only they had taken this view from the beginning 8v8 would still be around...

Oh well, this is CERTAINLY a step in the right direction. Here's hoping...

Sword · Jan 07, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Wow, im still amazed that people complain about ranked groups, not taking them cause they are "leet gw players".
So basically what u are complaining about is other people are better than you? ... If rank truly means nothing why dont u get a bunch of low ranked / no rank players together and make a team ... there are working builds posted on various sites .. including this one

If you want to be accepted into high rank groups then play HA ...alot. Unless you pvp started the first month of GW then they probably had to go on a ton of low fame runs to get any sort of rank....I know I did. You may think that it takes a long time to find mission+bonus group for thunderhead keep, but you will need a lot more patience if you expect to get rank/get good at pvp.

-Every once in awhile my guild leader will be bored/whatever and decide to take a low rank into our team ... every time that player lasts one run cause he dosent know how to play the build, and more importantly operate with the team effectivly, and simply has not had enough experience to play relaxed. If a player is stressed out in a match he cant stop and think about what HE should be doing instead of just attacking a target / pressing searing flames followed by glowing gaze , etc ... u get the idea. HA is not just kill as fast as you can, a good balanced team will see what the other team is running / see how they are playing and if each player is good he/she will know what to do based on experience of seeing similar scenerois played out in the past.

If you want to get good groups then establish them, in almost every group formed that is high rank and not some gimmick build people ask their friends and dont pug, because they have played with them in the past and know that they are good; all high ranked players are not good, people know this and will not accept them into groups if they have played with them in the past. Earning fame is a slow process at the beginning, if you establish a good group of people that you play with often you fame will increase faster than when you started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LL ShadowIX LL

im a competant pvper now (from GvG, and other PvP aspects)

...playing a couple hrs of gvg or "other pvp aspects" ... u think this makes u good?

If you/your guild are good then why dont you guys HA together too? ... and since you are a compentant pvper that means u should have played with hundreds of different people, so if you were even decent people should ask you to play in their groups....stop complaining and play more

Pvers need to understand that if you are going to make the transition to pvp that it is a major commitment and if you expect to be successful you need to dedicate the time. If not then they will find themselves complaning about rank discrimination on guru, asking for a change

elsalamandra · Jan 07, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Well well well!

HA.

Heroes Ascent.

The home of bitter rank discrimination by a few if not many stuck-up full of themsleves players who think they are god's gift to Guild Wars PvP.

I just hope that they make changes to make this more enjoyable for avaerage players and not the atmosphere this place has.

I for one am rank 5 and it cost me a few many months to get to rank 5 and of course many will now make adverse comments to this my reply but I am not bothered with what you may say.

The truth of the matter is that HA constitutes, for unranked players, to spend a lot of time trying to get into any form of team and then, whether by luck or bad luck, they start to progress, high ranked players (names of a few I could mention here but I wont) insult them, humiliate them by using words like these:

NOOB go back to PvE.

I have a brain for sale for each of you noobs.

Rank 1 or 2 = Nooby brainless basher.

Bow to us we pawned you you noobs.

The list could go on and if the OP is to better HA, Gaile these are things that you should know even though you may know already and nothing can be done about these sad individuals, but I sometimes play the devil's advocate.

nivelis · Jan 07, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Reading reactions I decided to write first advices:

If you want to make 8v8 HA - do it but only as another competition (one of gvg tournaments?).
Keep ghostly 6v6 way as it is now. Ha 6v6 make it special and interesting, developing lot of new builds and whats most important - make it different in play and builds from gvg!!!
Its good there is ra, ta (4v4), ha (6v6), gvg (8v8), ab (12v12).

Things that should be fixed fast in HA:
-ghostly bodyblock bug (he is not moving back or any other direction when bodyblocked, big chance to bug - We had that several times)
-relics misplace lag (you run with relic, move arround enemy and it shows that you moving, and suddenly you are back on stairs blocked by something and hited by other players , 95% chance to have this, me a lot of my friends have this evry time we play relics... its so annoying)

Former Ruling · Jan 07, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

If only they had taken this view from the beginning 8v8 would still be around...

They did do a test weekend for 6v6 to test how it'd be accepted actually >_>

And according to Gaile their numbers showed that 6v6 was overall accepted by the public.

But some people are so "leet" that they always need something to complain about

Cass · Jan 07, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

They did do a test weekend for 6v6 to test how it'd be accepted actually >_>

And according to Gaile their numbers showed that 6v6 was overall accepted by the public.

But some people are so "leet" that they always need something to complain about

Double fame had something to do with the popularity of that weekend.

Stop underming the discussion by flaming HA players by calling them "leet" or whiners etc. If you don't like HA or the people playing, why are you trolling topics that concern only them?

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 07, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by elsalamandra

Well well well!

HA.

Heroes Ascent.

The home of bitter rank discrimination by a few if not many stuck-up full of themsleves players who think they are god's gift to Guild Wars PvP.

I just hope that they make changes to make this more enjoyable for avaerage players and not the atmosphere this place has.

I for one am rank 5 and it cost me a few many months to get to rank 5 and of course many will now make adverse comments to this my reply but I am not bothered with what you may say.

The truth of the matter is that HA constitutes, for unranked players, to spend a lot of time trying to get into any form of team and then, whether by luck or bad luck, they start to progress, high ranked players (names of a few I could mention here but I wont) insult them, humiliate them by using words like these:

NOOB go back to PvE.

I have a brain for sale for each of you noobs.

Rank 1 or 2 = Nooby brainless basher.

Bow to us we pawned you you noobs.

The list could go on and if the OP is to better HA, Gaile these are things that you should know even though you may know already and nothing can be done about these sad individuals, but I sometimes play the devil's advocate.

Breaking news....! We all started at r0. If one wants to get into the game, they will play and break the rank barrier such as you have done. Also, people QQ about rank discrimination, but if you're truly good, you'll be found early on. I played with my first few r9s when i had 177 fame, was running with r9+ groups by r4. Rank discrimination? I think not. Skill discrimination? Yes. Fact of the matter is, lower ranks have a reputation for not being very good because the large majority of them are not very good. They all cry about bitter rank discrimination, etc., etc., but in reality they simply do not have the skills and experience to play with the upper echelons. ZOMFG, I wasn't good enough for the NBA.... DISCRIMINATION.... no, I'm just not good enough. Get over it. Rank really doesn't mean anything, there are numerous high ranks I've had the misfortune of playing with that I would not touch with a 30 foot long pole they're so bad. If one really wants to get into HA, they'll spend the time getting that rank and/or skill, regardless of how much the rank actually means.

king_robin · Jan 07, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Ok I have played GW for a year now and 2-3 month I played HA. Is was SO BLOODY hard to find a group. So I think that Anet should do something like put these people that doesn't have a rank into distict where 0 ranked can meet 0 ranked can form a 0 ranked group that face another 0 ranked group. That would be perfect.
Or those people can just found themself a guild that does HA.
I really want to play HA tho but I don't know any such build either... (r2)

midnight caretaker · Jan 07, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Does anyone know what theyare talking about with the skill changes for the weekend? Do they plan on nerfing (skill balancing) a bunch of skills for the weekend then keeping the nerfs they feel that will improve the game or will the skill changes permanent but maps and win conditions only for the weekend? Also will they create a poll on their website or the fansites for us to make our comments on what was good or bad? Hopefully so.

I think we can all agree that a pve player trying to break into pvp/ha is a grind (you can deny this all you want or try to flame me for saying it but its true) and most of your time is spent running around in circle in HA lfg. (this is how it was for me unlit i got r3 then grps forming and quality of players got faster and better. This of course got better when i was in pvp guilds. New players are not accepted very well in pvp, it is rare to find a guild that takes in a new pvper and shows him the ropes, yes it does happen I know but definitely rare. This is why there are so many gimmick builds people want to win so they will get in any build they can when they start. They get into one that gets them a little fame so they stick with it for a while learn the maps other builds and stratagies. So basically imo gimmick builds like iway /bspike/ rspike/ etc and all the newer ones since the 6v6 update have kept HA alive with new players. I know many wont agree but my post my opinion. The fact is that besides new skills and new chars and the 6v6 HA is the same after a new chapter, that is a big factor of why people leave GW pvp or get their r3/r6/r9 or whatevertheirgoal was then leave because its always the same thing. RA/TA got new maps for each chapter why not HA new maps and new win conditions would revitalize HA so hopefull this will be acomplished with the weekend coming up and we can all get back to playing the game instead of complaining/flaming ftl on tthe threads.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jan 07, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnight caretaker

Does anyone know what theyare talking about with the skill changes for the weekend? Do they plan on nerfing (skill balancing) a bunch of skills for the weekend then keeping the nerfs they feel that will improve the game or will the skill changes permanent but maps and win conditions only for the weekend? Also will they create a poll on their website or the fansites for us to make our comments on what was good or bad? Hopefully so.

I think we can all agree that a pve player trying to break into pvp/ha is a grind (you can deny this all you want or try to flame me for saying it but its true) and most of your time is spent running around in circle in HA lfg. (this is how it was for me unlit i got r3 then grps forming and quality of players got faster and better. This of course got better when i was in pvp guilds. New players are not accepted very well in pvp, it is rare to find a guild that takes in a new pvper and shows him the ropes, yes it does happen I know but definitely rare. This is why there are so many gimmick builds people want to win so they will get in any build they can when they start. They get into one that gets them a little fame so they stick with it for a while learn the maps other builds and stratagies. So basically imo gimmick builds like iway /bspike/ rspike/ etc and all the newer ones since the 6v6 update have kept HA alive with new players. I know many wont agree but my post my opinion. The fact is that besides new skills and new chars and the 6v6 HA is the same after a new chapter, that is a big factor of why people leave GW pvp or get their r3/r6/r9 or whatevertheirgoal was then leave because its always the same thing. RA/TA got new maps for each chapter why not HA new maps and new win conditions would revitalize HA so hopefull this will be acomplished with the weekend coming up and we can all get back to playing the game instead of complaining/flaming ftl on tthe threads.

I believe that the skill balances are supposed to take place in "mid-January", so I'm guessing that they'll happen a bit before the weekend as part of anet's regular updates. Also, I don't think anyone is denying that getting r0-r3 is a grind, we're just saying that it is necessary and people have to work for it, which is a good thing as it results in an overall better player and mor experience. As for fotms keeping HA alive, /signed, more fotms easier it is to get into HA. This is yet another reason for 8v8, it was easier for new players to get into the game (although the complete lack of competition in 6v6 makes it easy in an entirely different way).

Former Ruling · Jan 07, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

Double fame had something to do with the popularity of that weekend.

Stop underming the discussion by flaming HA players by calling them "leet" or whiners etc. If you don't like HA or the people playing, why are you trolling topics that concern only them?

I'm fine with HA and people that play it overall.

Its the....Oh..."leet" people and whiners that noone really likes. The people that seem to think their opinions mean more when they don't and they always have something to complain about. Which is hypocritical in itself since these are the same people that just can't get enough of what they are complaining about.

It cheapens any discussion like this with bias.

Bread Fan · Jan 07, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

It is quite obvious why Gaile posted this here. To get support from the PvE and "casual or maybe never even played HA" players. Now all these players will bash the dedicated veterans that have played HA/tombs for almost 2 years. I like how Anet can sell a product and then COMPLETELY change it just to try and make it more noob friendly yet dissing the people that have bought the game and expansions from day one.

Phoenix Ex · Jan 07, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Breaking news....! We all started at r0.

The key difference is that the people that "started at R0" when prophecies just started (like me) don't have to deal with rank problems since everyone is R0.

People who started a few months after that has to deal with some discrimination but since the momentum of prophecies is still going strong, there are still many R0 of various level.

People who started another few months after (aka air spike/smite/spirit spam era) must grind R3 with unranked occasionally, which isn't that hard.

And another few months after that (Iway era), zero chance to join any ranked group, and most notice unranked group can't make any progress because of ridiculous skill difference, and chances are learn nothing because they got rolled before they even got a glimpse of what's going on......people started forming dedicated "N" group and guilds and completely ignore the rest of the people, some leaves, and the rest fotm grind their way up.

And now, population entering HA is slowed to a trickle (just look at the amount of dist), with many leaving due to the rank problems reducing the population of unranked even further, trying to form an unranked group is like trying to find a pin in an ocean...THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH unranked people to form friends list, and most guild has rank req.

Conclusion: Unless you wanted be labeled fotm farmer, new people should just give up. For them....its like telling a newbie guild to go up against a top 10 guild and then asking them "what advanced strategy did they use" and trying to get them to learn....its just not possible.

HA, from the beginning, should be separated by rank to begin with. R0-2 ONLY fights R0-2, R3-5 ONLY fights R3-5...and so forth. Anyone saying that forming unranked now is as painless as Apr 2005....well, think again.

Amity and Truth · Jan 07, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Fan

It is quite obvious why Gaile posted this here. To get support from the PvE and "casual or maybe never even played HA" players. Now all these players will bash the dedicated veterans that have played HA/tombs for almost 2 years. I like how Anet can sell a product and then COMPLETELY change it just to try and make it more noob friendly yet dissing the people that have bought the game and expansions from day one.

Thanks for the laugh. Haven't seen a flamebait like this in ages. :thumps up:

NeHoMaR · Jan 07, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Well, IMO, HA is a chaos at the moment. I will explain: I am not playing HA before the patch that removed the heroway, and this doesn't mean I am a "herowayer", the problem is the only thing I did (in HA) before Nightfall release was heroway because the incredible chaos (IMO) invaded HA after NF.

With "chaos" I mean all "popular" builds disappeared in some way with NF (and some skill changes in a patch near the 6vs6 patch, I think) So, now in the observer mode (and in-play) the only I see are "random" ALL different team builds not near the popularity of the all builds of all time, even the "popular" builds now are not popular at all in comparison with the past.

Now the only chance for play and actually win good fame is with a good PvP guild (I am not in one) or being r9 or more and make good teams, I mean, there are a LOT of r6 (or less) people; That people need over popular, easy and fast to make builds (like IWAY) for make something in a over populated and chaotic HA world when people are still testing builds after NF.

I hope developers do something for fix that problems, and speed up the "popularity" of some builds or easy up the play for r6 (or less) people or whatever, specially before the release of campaign 4th that could easily make HA a chaos again.

I don't remember that chaos in HA with the release of Factions, I am not really sure why, maybe because new Nightfall professions impacted more in HA, also NF new skills.

Gaile Gray · Jan 07, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I wanted to share a few comments:

There seems to be a misunderstanding about when and why we put 6v6 into place in HA. Sometimes, players mistakenly say that ArenaNet made the change based on reactions to a double-reward weekend. In fact, the decision to change to 6v6 came a number of weeks after the weekend, and came as a result of a large number of players saying that they enjoyed the 6v6 very much. Would all who said that, early on, still share that preference? Opinions differ as to whether they would or would not. However, I think it's fair to be clear about when the change was made, and on what criteria it was based, just for accuracy's and fairness' sake.

Secondly, I think that placing major news is sometimes appropriate on more than one subforum of any particular site, so I posted news of the coming test weekend here, in what I perceive to be the largest and most-active forum on Guru, in addition to posting in the smaller Heroes' Ascent Forum. I truly did not intend to have any sort of influence by placing it here, or there. Actually, I just wanted players to know about the upcoming weekend and invite them to participate. And yes, the invitation does extend to those who play HA daily, who dip into HA once in a while, who have left HA because they don't care for it in its current state, and even those who haven't tried it at all. I'm sorry if that is a point of concern to some. I know a few have said that we should only allow X players or Y groups to est. But in testing this level of change, we'd like to have a larger number of players involved which as a group represent all different types and styles of player.

Lastly, the skill balance testing will take place--as a test--at the same time that the Heroes' Ascent Weekend takes place. What does this mean? It means that instead of rolling out skill changes in a final state, players will have a chance to test not just the new mechanics of HA and the proposed revisions to that venue, but a significant number of potential skill changes, too. You're therefore will be beta testing both. At the end of the weekend, the skill changes and the changes to HA will be rolled back out, feedback retrieved and analyzed, and the final changes will then be implemented into the game.

Hope that info helps, and thanks for your continued input.

some guy · Jan 07, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

So long as more unranked people get a shot in HA, I'll be happy =)

I only have 1 fame, because most HA teams are rank determined, yeah I will be happy if that happens too.

shardfenix · Jan 07, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Sometimes, players mistakenly say that ArenaNet made the change based on reactions to a double-reward weekend. In fact, the decision to change to 6v6 came a number of weeks after the weekend, and came as a result of a large number of players saying that they enjoyed the 6v6 very much.

They enjoyed it because of the double fame. If you had done double fame and 6v6 on seperate weekends, you would have different player reactions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Lastly, the skill balance testing will take place--as a test--at the same time that the Heroes' Ascent Weekend takes place. What does this mean? It means that instead of rolling out skill changes in a final state, players will have a chance to test not just the new mechanics of HA and the proposed revisions to that venue, but a significant number of potential skill changes, too. You're therefore will be beta testing both. At the end of the weekend, the skill changes and the changes to HA will be rolled back out, feedback retrieved and analyzed, and the final changes will then be implemented into the game.

I'm confused...will you be delaying the already late skill balance yet another week, then not actually implement it until a third week? Or will you give us the Jan 2nd skill balance on the (12th?) then run a new balance test during the HA weekend?